Ethan: 0:00

Marion's boss asks her to take it. Did you just delete something?

Sage: 0:03

It said back at "the work." Is there only "one work" in the world?

Ethan: 0:08

Yes, there is "the job"

Sage: 0:10

The one office.

Ethan: 0:11

I am going to "the job" now. The work at the office.

Sage: 0:16

It's ours.

Ethan: 0:17

Okay.

Sage: 0:28

Hello, and welcome to Episode Nine of the Teen Horror podcast where we watch and discuss horror movies from a teen's perspective. I'm your host Sage, and I'm joined by my co host and unpaid intern, my dad.

Ethan: 0:41

Greetings everybody.

Sage: 0:43

This week, we watched a movie that changed horror and taking showers forever. Psycho.

Ethan: 0:49

(makes EEE EEE EEE noises like the Psycho soundtrack)

Sage: 0:51

What was that!

Ethan: 0:54

That was my soundtrack. Okay, so maybe a quick content warning. This movie does feature subjects including both fictional and real serial killers and murder. Well, I guess the movie doesn't contain real serial killers, but our discussion of the movie will contain discussions of real serial killers and murder. Yep.

Sage: 1:12

One other quick note, we will be spoiling this film. So if you haven't seen it, please watch it first and come back for the discussion.

Ethan: 1:21

be keeping things family friendly and avoiding cussing in both the banter and movie clips. Of course, in this episode, even without F bombs, the subject matter is still pretty intense. So probably not appropriate for younger kids. We wanted to thank everyone for listening and being a part of the show. So thank you, dear listener, we do have listeners right now on all continents other than Antarctica, we figured that's only because everyone in Antarctica has already been turned into The Thing and The Thing doesn't listen to podcasts, evidently. So but if you do know somebody on McMurdo Station, hey, you know, maybe recommend us? Speaking of recommendations, we do really like to get reviews and ratings on Apple podcasts. So if you have a chance, please review us there, Apple podcasts in particular. But really any podcast platform is great if you want to just leave us a review. It also just makes us feel great to know that you guys are listening and how you feel about the show and what your thoughts are. We also wanted to give a special shout out to friend of the show Rich at Scarecrow video,

Sage: 2:25

Who, by the way, has met David Lynch.

Ethan: 2:27

Yes, he's actually been in the same room. Yes, it's pretty amazing. I suspect, not just David Lynch. Well, I think he's probably met a whole passel of directors.

Sage: 2:37

Do you just make that up? No, I think passle is the word for when directors are all?

Ethan: 2:42

Yes. A group of directors is a passel of directors. Yeah, he's met a bunch. Rich is a friend of the show a friend and he gives us great recommendations on movies that we like to watch. And you know, we actually watch, we try to watch most of our films on Blu ray. And it's just so great to have Scarecrow here in Seattle. I think it's the biggest video store in the world right now. Yeah, I should also mention, this is not any sort of sponsored message, we just really like Scarecrow, they're a nonprofit, actually, they take donations, you know, if you have a like, say, I don't know,$40,000 in cash that you just embezzled from your employer and fled town with their a great choice. You don't have to be local to do it. They're really preserving a very important media. So before we start with our summary and review, we thought it might be fun to talk a little bit about some of the movies we've been watching that we haven't reviewed, how we watch them and just have a little casual chat time. How's that sound? How does that strike your fancy?

Sage: 3:41

It strikes it perfectly.

Ethan: 3:44

But not too hard? Right? Your fancy is ok? Alright, so we rented a whole whole passle of videos recently.

Sage: 3:51

We watched Dawn of the Dead.

Ethan: 3:54

The 1970s version to be clear. Yeah. Maybe we'll watch the remake as well. What did you think about I'm just curious.

Sage: 4:01

I think that it's definitely worth watching more than once. Because I'm sure there's like themes and such that you would get.

Ethan: 4:10

Is that the first zombie film that you've seen

Sage: 4:12

Define zombie film.

Ethan: 4:14

Film. With zombies.

Sage: 4:16

No. It is not.

Ethan: 4:20

What other zombie movies have you seen?

Sage: 4:23

I don't know. Zombieland?

Ethan: 4:26

Oh, Zombieland for sure. You've seen Zombieland. Okay, so this is not your first zombie movie. Not my first zombie rodeo.

Sage: 4:34

You called it a slow zombie movie?

Ethan: 4:37

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, because later on. Yeah. So in 28 days later. I think that's the movie that introduces the concept of the fast zombie. Yeah. I should watch that too. Yes. Totally. I actually want you to watch a couple more zombie films when we maybe we just do a zombie episode.

Sage: 4:55

Yeah, we could do that. Yeah. I watched Lost Highway by David Lynch. I still cannot believe that Rich has met David Lynch. That's insane. I don't know. Yeah, it's crazy. I have seen someone who has seen David Lynch

Ethan: 5:13

Through the transitive property of seeing you too have seen David Lynch. Pretty much. Maybe if we just sit and talk with him for a while. And he just really describes David Lynch in detail.

Sage: 5:24

So today, we had an interview with David Lynch.

Ethan: 5:27

Sort of. Rich channeled David Lynch.

Sage: 5:32

What else we oh, we watched this, just like kind of short horror movie. Yeah, like 45 minutes long. AM 1200. It was really good. And there were some behind the scenes on it. On the blu ray, they included a deleted scene, which I thought was fun to see. It's interesting to just think about how that would have changed the film. So that that movie was really cool. And what else

Ethan: 6:04

Trying to think what else I have seen recently.

Sage: 6:06

Well, oh, we watched The Life Aquatic. By Wes Anderson.

Ethan: 6:11

We do watch non horror films as well. Yeah. Surprisingly, I really cover those in our sister podcast, teen non-horror podcast.

Sage: 6:21

I really like Wes Anderson. As a director. Yeah. There's something there's something about his, you know, so the pace of his his movies. If you know if a pace can be compared to someone walking the pace of his movies, it's kind of like someone walking with a limp. But in a good way. You know, there's just some odd pauses, you know, and some weird little

Ethan: 6:48

sort of occasional shuffle.

Sage: 6:50

Yeah, yeah. I really like I think it's a unique

Ethan: 6:55

Yeah, what else? I'm trying to think what else we watched prey? The new predator? Oh, my

Sage: 6:59

gosh, yeah. I mean, and obviously, I've seen predator. That's right.

Ethan: 7:03

Yep. But we just recently watched predator, right. Yeah.

Sage: 7:07

I wouldn't want to watch prey without first seeing predator, because I think it's important to appreciate how far the this battle of eggs have gone. And just see the original concept. Yeah. A predator. Yeah.

Ethan: 7:22

I mean, also, I mean, the predator is pretty amazing what they achieved without special effects. Yeah. Yeah. Which is relevant, actually, to our discussion of psycho. Yeah. And just like go, do you think it's pronounced psycho? Yeah, probably. But this whole

Sage: 7:39

episode about prey, I loved it. And I think it was really good that they had a female lead, and that almost the whole cast the whole cast besides the like, the Frenchmen were indigenous. And anyone who thinks that the movie is unrealistic, because it was a woman can stop listening

Ethan: 8:02

to our podcast. Yeah. Just turn it off right now.

Sage: 8:06

Because I have heard that criticism of it so many times. And it is shocking to me that people still have these trains of thought. I truly cannot fathom that. There are people out there who still think that the movie was bad because there was a woman as the lead.

Ethan: 8:26

It's a terrible criticism. I know. Yeah. Yeah. We really liked it. It was I loved great movie. Super fun. Love. It's taken predator into a great direction. Yeah, I've watched it twice now.

Sage: 8:40

So those are some of our movie recommendations recently. Yeah. Um, okay, so should we get on to the summary? Oh, do you have something else

Ethan: 8:49

to say? Oh, no, my thoughts aren't important. Just steamroll right over everything. I was gonna say

Sage: 8:57

anything. Okay. So,

Ethan: 9:00

yeah, let's go into the summary A quick note on our film summaries, we love doing these summaries we love including audio from the film's so let us know what you think in terms of like the length of the summary. We go shorter, longer. Maybe we're hitting the sweet spot just let us know what you think. On to the summary. Sycho opens with a wide panning shot across an American city hundreds of buildings 1000s of Windows. The camera zooms in further and further to we're entering one window in particular. Inside we watch a steamy love scene between Marion Crane, a secretary played by Janet Lee and her boyfriend Sam Loomis played by John Gavin

Sage: 10:13

While the couple is interested in more than just afternoon, rendezvoused and CD hotels, Sam is bound by debt it doesn't feel he has the financial resources to marry her yet. Marian seems frustrated by this she clearly loves Sam, but how they can overcome this obstacle is unclear.

Ethan: 10:43

Back at work, Marianne is discomforted by the lecherous new client her bosses dealing with. Keeping his money off the books he slaps down payment for a building and thick wads of cash, Marion's boss asks her to take it for immediate deposit. Leaving with a money Marian seize her opportunity to clear a path for her and Sam to finally marry. She literally takes the money and runs

Sage: 11:26

fleeing town with a suitcase and $40,000 in cash. She drives all night and sleeps on the side of the road in her car. awakened by a police officer she handles the encounter poorly raising his suspicions. One bad encounter leads to further panic decisions as she stops to trade in her car at a dealership driving off past the police officer who followed her there. She seems unprepared for her new life of crime and needs to rest to collect your thoughts. Finally, in the middle of the night in pouring rain, she spots a motel. The Bates Motel from which she will never check out.

Ethan: 12:49

Marian checks in and meets the proprietor Norman Bates a young charming if slightly odd young man. She and Norman bond over a conversation in which they each reveal the metaphorical traps they find themselves in. Marion doesn't disclose details, but Norman goes into depth about feeling trapped by his mother, whom he still lives with in a house behind the hotel. Marian and Norman each leave the conversation inspired, but inspired two distinctly different action.

Sage: 13:33

Marian returns to her room clear headed for the first time and days and decides to return the money and face the consequences. Feeling relief having made this decision she prepares to shower to wash away her feelings of shame and guilt. As she just robes she is unaware that in the next remover. Norman is watching her throw people. He desires her but this is something his mother cannot abide. And minutes later she bursts into the bathroom while Marian showers a dark and menacing figure who brutally murders Marian by stabbing her again and again with a knife. Marion's life swirls down the drain as she bleeds out in the bath.

Ethan: 14:15

After his mother returns to their house, we hear Norman scream apparently from the blood. He rushes to the room and upon entering discovers to his horror that his mother has killed apparently not for the first time. After the initial shock he takes action and disposes of Mary Ann's body and possessions. A

Sage: 14:37

detective sent to track down Marian and the money contacts Marian sister and boyfriend Sam and then proceeds to interview Norman his suspicions around the coverup of events lead to his sneaking into the Bates house and a fatal encounter with Norman's mother.

Ethan: 15:48

Marian sister and Sam loose patients waiting for the detective and take matters into their own hands. Breaking into Marion's room at the hotel they find evidence of our occupancy and know that Norman is lying about something. Sam keeps Norman busy. Marian sister sneaks up to the house convinced that the mother knows something to finding only empty rooms she hides in the basement as Norman rushes in.

Sage: 16:35

There she enters the cellar and discovers to her horror the desiccated remains of Norman's mother. As she screams, Norman rushes in wearing his mother's clothes, acting, and as it turns out, even thinking as his mother would, his split personality is finally split no more, the mother half dominates completely, and he descends into madness alone in a police holding cell as the movie ends. II don't do that, again.

Ethan: 17:21

I don't remember any of the other soundtrack. But this is that that's the only part of the scores. All right on to the discussion.

Sage: 17:40

So for this movie, I actually want both of us I guess we compiled a list of things to talk about, because there's just so much that happened with this movie behind the scenes, especially because it was directed by Alfred Hitchcock. And he's a little bit eccentric.

Ethan: 17:57

He has big ideas is master filmmaking.

Sage: 18:00

He's a little stubborn. Yeah, one of the things that I wanted to talk about was the iconic shower scene, because you know, I'm sure many people listening to this podcast know what we're talking about, even if they haven't seen the movie. I knew about the shower scene, even though Yeah, let's

Ethan: 18:15

Okay, so before we get into all that, let me ask you like, what did you know about this movie before? You You saw it?

Sage: 18:20

What I knew about the movie, I knew the shower scene. I knew the iconic scream. The stabbing. And honestly, that's pretty much it. I didn't know anything about women. Yeah, you didn't know Norman was No, I didn't know it was Norman. I didn't know that the mother was actually dead. Well, I didn't know anything else about the potluck, the motel the embezzlement, her boyfriend, her sister, anything like that. Yeah. So even though it is in some ways, a hallmark of movies and pop culture. It's really only one scene that's talked about heavily outside of horror circles.

Ethan: 18:53

We've been joined by our third production associate, new member of the crew, our cat is just wandered in. Just checking things out. Could you get us some coffee, please? This cat is useless.

Sage: 19:06

So apparently, back in the day, when it was released in 1960. Obviously, there were a lot of things that weren't as acceptable to show on film. Yes. And actually,

Ethan: 19:18

what was the issue? The censorship? Yeah. And,

Sage: 19:20

you know, no one had even seen a toilet on film before before this movie, which I was surprised by, you know, because it's so normal now. I'm not really shocked by it.

Ethan: 19:29

It's nothing but toilets everywhere. Yeah, obviously,

Sage: 19:31

they couldn't show a knife going into a person.

Ethan: 19:34

Yeah, there was a lot of censorship around like, that's actually one of the reasons that this film, he chose to film this in black and white, which feels like you know, an iconic and appropriate choice. But he couldn't show red blood was like that taboo. So he filmed it in black and white so that there wouldn't be red blood. I guess. Dark blood is okay. It's like blood if you like, react to it.

Sage: 19:55

Yeah. But yeah, so he managed to get around that with lots of little jumps, jump cuts between the actual murder scene yes or no between Marion's face screaming and then the knife almost coming into contact with the torso. And apparently there is a frame like three, three frames maybe where the knife is, quote unquote in her skin. Yeah. And we were looking at a website that was talking about this we dove deep. Yeah, so this person had laid out each individual frame of that suppose that scene where the knife breaks the skin, supposedly, and they said that they thought that it didn't actually break the skin, it was just kind of pressing into the skin enough to make it look like it was Yeah. And the way they were able to make it so precise and able to stop the knife before it went in. This person was speculating that it was actually a reverse shot. And they had started with a knife pressed into Marion's torso and then pulled back and they had analyzed like the water droplets and the way the shower and the wit like the water was moving. To come to this conclusion, this person was really serious about this. So I don't know if that's true if it hasn't been corroborated by Hitchcock himself, because he's no longer around. So I thought that was interesting. Yeah.

Ethan: 21:15

So can we take a step back? That was a lot of good information. And it's really notable that the censorship played a big role in sort of shaping a lot of those scenes of the film. But what what's your sort of gut reaction to the film like, did you first of all, did you like it?

Sage: 21:27

I did like it. I liked the plot, twist the fact

Ethan: 21:30

that the who the person who you think the main character is dies partway through or the end? Is that

Sage: 21:36

Yeah, and that his mother is dead. And you know, a lot of movies, they'll talk about how the audience first reacted when it was shown, like they were screaming in the theater in hysteria. And it was the same with this movie. I heard a lot about that. And this is maybe the first movie I've seen, where I can understand why the audience was screaming like that, you know, yeah, I get that same feeling. And I wasn't screaming while I was watching it, obviously. But I felt I felt what I thought the audience felt when they saw it. And that's something that can be hard to achieve, even what 60 plus years later,

Ethan: 22:14

yeah, Hitchcock was doing an interview with Francois Truffaut, another director, Hitchcock said that he felt like he was playing the audience like a musical instrument. And I can see that because by the end of the movie, when Marian sister rushes into the cellar and discovers the corpse of the mother, I felt like I've been driving up this hill, you know, just and you just hit the peak this like crescendo of anxiety and like tension. Yeah. And it just bursts at that moment. You're just like, oh, my gosh,

Sage: 22:48

yeah, it's great. The reveal, and the fact that it's in black and white too, I think is really good, because I think they didn't have to worry as much about making it look super realistic, because it was in black and white. And I think there's also something about that, that it seems to be almost a restriction. And a lot of times restrictions can act to make you more creative or inventive, or give you more ideas. And there's this one thing that you pointed out to me was that in the beginning of the movie, Marian is wearing I think it's like a white bra and a white slip. Yeah. And after she decides to embezzle the money and take it for herself. She's wearing a black bra and a black slip. Yeah. Which is definitely on purpose. For sure. For sure. It's symbolism and it's within the black and white. And I think it's really cool.

Ethan: 23:42

And there's there's so many like moments where characters move in and out of shadow. And yeah, you know, it's interesting that Alfred Hitchcock actually, so he was doing his Hitchcock Presents TV show at the same time. And so he let me see if I can get all this straight. He was with Paramount at the time, right and universal. So this movie was produced by Paramount but filmed at Universal Studios, because he was moving there.

Sage: 24:06

Yeah. And also Paramount highly disapproved of him making this movie, they were so adamantly against it. I don't understand

Ethan: 24:16

how that happens, where they can be against something but still contracts in the film industry. Seems so complicated.

Sage: 24:22

Yeah. So he had a very small budget, even for that time.

Ethan: 24:28

It was he wanted to have a small budget. Yeah, it was,

Sage: 24:30

I think 800,000 or something like that. And he actually decided to forego his usual salary. What was his usual salary?

Ethan: 24:40

So like tuner like$125,000.

Sage: 24:44

And he decided that he wanted all the money to go towards the production because it had to because he

Ethan: 24:51

would be like, 25% of the entire budget. Well, yeah. Which is his money, so he

Sage: 24:54

decided instead to take 60% What was it? Yeah.

Ethan: 24:57

60% of the gross The revenue from the film

Sage: 25:01

and which turned out to be a lot of money. Yeah, so I guess he's happy he made that decision. Yeah, he made a ton of money off of it. Yeah. And he still managed to make an incredible movie with not that much money.

Ethan: 25:13

Okay, so the worldwide box office for psycho, was $32 million. Well, I can't remember what the Blair Witch costume revenue was. I think it was a higher ratio. But this is pretty good. Yeah, the reason I mentioned the Hitchcock Presents TV show is because he used his TV crew. Yeah, mind you. I mean, it wasn't just like they were talented. Obvious. Yeah, right. Like it. It's film. It's, it doesn't feel like a TV show. As a movie, definitely. Although he did consider splitting this movie up into two parts and then airing it on TV and stuff releasing it in theaters. Yeah. Can you imagine? Like, just what? I wonder if he would still be considered as iconic if that had happened? Yeah, so he used his TV crew. And it was not a shoestring budget, but it was a cheap for a film and 60. Part of what he said about that was that he had seen all these like indie films, cheap indie films come out black and white indie films. He's like, but what if somebody did a really good job? Which is both like kind of a dig, I guess. But also sort of like, well, I'm the guy. Yeah. But it was good. Because, you know, he was he was doing like big money pictures. Like I think he just done North by Northwest. Yeah. And you know, those were like big stars, big money, big production, you know, on location, all sorts of crazy stuff. And it was. So this was a big shift.

Sage: 26:38

Yeah. I think what his assistant said in an interview was that he had read the book psycho. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Robert Bloch. Yes, I think so. Yeah. Robert Bork. Yep. So he'd read psycho. And he said, we have to do this book. One of the major changes he made from the book to the movie was in the book. Norman Bates is supposed to be a pretty unlikable man.

Ethan: 27:06

Oh, yeah. Right, right. Yeah. He's like a slob. And he's lays rose. He's

Sage: 27:10

an alcoholic. Yeah. And he, yeah, he owns a lot of porn or something in the book, that they almost never I mean, because you know, in the movie, they can't really show that. Yeah. I think it's just, it's almost just adjusted once when Marian sister is in Norman's room, and she picks up a book and it's just a shot of her eyes wide. Right.

Ethan: 27:32

I

Sage: 27:32

forgot about that. Really? The only time right where it was in the book is a lot more heavy handed with that. Yeah. But

Ethan: 27:38

yeah, that's right. It's a book with a blank spine. And yeah, I guess that was the 1960s code for like, this is a naughty pictures book or something? I don't know.

Sage: 27:47

Yeah, I don't know. But so he really wanted the viewer to be sympathetic with Norman. So he made him different, like much different than he was in the book. And that's because halfway through Norwin, becomes the main character, Marian dies, which I think was a big shock for me. So I can't imagine what audiences then thought of that like switch. So no one becomes the main character. And at that point, you have to start rooting for him. Yeah. And by the

Ethan: 28:17

way, so this was written by Joseph Stefano, who was a really young writer.

Sage: 28:20

And I think he had only written one thing prior. Yes.

Ethan: 28:24

And it's very unusual for Hitchcock to work with a young artist.

Sage: 28:27

I think he was reluctant. But there was some scene that he'd written was at the opening scene, I think, I think it was, yeah. And so Alfred Hitchcock took him home with him. And he came back and he said, Oh, my loves it. That's right. Yeah. His wife. Yeah. We just I think someone I think his assistant said something like that was code for it's really good. And you're hired. Yeah. Yeah. And it's because I think someone, someone else prior to Joseph Stefano had written the, like the entire script for psycho. And Hitchcock didn't like,

Ethan: 29:00

Yeah, this is not uncommon, by the way. Yeah, there's a podcast that I really like called best movies ever made. Which if you like film, you know, it's it's a film nerds dream, because they talk just about films that never get made, or versions of films that didn't. Yeah, it's amazing how scripts get produced in Hollywood. So yeah, he worked with Joseph Stano. They did a really tight story with some really interesting twists. They take their like lead actor and kill her halfway through. Yeah. Which is unimaginable, right. Like it's the kind of the ultimate bait and switch.

Sage: 29:33

Right. Something else is that a lot of the parts I think were written for the actors who played them. Yeah. And I think it's great. I think especially Norman Bates. Really well, yeah. Yeah. Anthony Perkins plays Norman Bates. He did a really good job at it. And who plays Mary? Generally? Yeah. Okay, sorry.

Ethan: 29:51

Yeah. Yeah, played by Janet Lee. And, of course, mother of Jamie Lee Curtis.

Sage: 29:56

I think they were they were both really Good in their roles, because they're both very nuanced roles. You know, Marian has committed a crime, but it's not because she's a criminal. It's because she wants to get married. You know, she knows nothing about it's not

Ethan: 30:14

because she's a criminal. It's because she's a person. Yeah, like, isn't that that's kind of, I think one of the, I don't know, that's how I read these characters is like, we all have a little madness in us. We all have a little darkness in us. Yeah.

Sage: 30:27

And Marian is able to overcome that she decides to go back and deliver the money to where it's supposed to be right. And face the consequences of embezzling $40,000. That's after she has her talk with Norman in his parlor, which is a great scene in the movie, maybe one of the best, because you kind of get a sense that Norman is a little bit off. Yeah, there's something inside him that's different

Ethan: 30:54

in at that point, I think it's still very possible to read his character as just a little odd and off. Yes, he's a little like, overly controlled by his mother, or you know, is development is stunted emotionally or something like that. Yeah. And not necessarily like, oh, by the ways, it's got to slip

Sage: 31:10

out. Yeah. One of the great things about the movie is that at first when we first meet Norman, I didn't guess that he was the psycho, you know, yeah, I, I asked you and you said something like, Oh, he's too nice to be

Ethan: 31:25

nice. I didn't say no. I remember, like, very carefully, kind of want to,

Sage: 31:30

like, oh, and I believe you because he is so nice. In the beginning. There's no hint that he, he's crazy.

Ethan: 31:37

I love you know, that performance by Anthony Perkins is amazing.

Sage: 31:41

I know. And

Ethan: 31:42

you like him immediately. I

Sage: 31:44

like no ugly. Yeah, he's, he's just a nice guy. And then

Ethan: 31:48

you feel like, within 30 seconds, you are feeling sympathy for this guy. And like his hotels on hard times. He's still chipper about it, and still trying to like, you know, keep his chin up.

Sage: 31:59

And that's what helps. I think when Marian dies. That's what helps the audience to lock on to Norman instead of Marion is because before earlier in the movie, they've already established this kind of warm feeling about him. And even if that's kind of slipped, yeah, after the parlor discussion, it comes right back up once Marian dies.

Ethan: 32:20

That's actually a really good point. There's a scene so Norman Norman mother nominally right, we hear her voice and Norman and his mother have a confrontation up in the house, he rushes back down, discovers Mary's body kind of has a breakdown. Again, further cementing the fact that we think like, oh, this is you know, it's not him. It's his mom's crazy. Yeah. And then he like pulls himself together decides he has to hide the body in order to protect his mom you assume and and take care of her possessions, stuffs everything to do with her car, and it drives her car into like a swamp, basically.

Sage: 32:54

Yeah. And there's a scene where you're watching the car. Yeah. Sink slowly into the mud. Yes. And Norman is standing there watching eating his candy corn as he does,

Ethan: 33:06

which is which was an improv. Yeah. at Perkins. Love it.

Sage: 33:10

There's a point where the car stops in the mud. And you can still see the top of it. And Norman kind of freezes and looks at

Ethan: 33:16

it. You freeze as the audience right here.

Sage: 33:19

You're waiting your breath to keep going. Yeah. So at this point, you're with Norman. Yeah,

Ethan: 33:24

I think it's that pause that just that to me. That's Hitchcock's mastery. Yeah. Right. It's like if the if the car had just like sunk straight down, you might still kind of be like, this guy. But because there's like, literally just like five seconds where you're like, waiting for the car to continue sinking. Yeah, I saw that. And I'm like, oh, maybe he can cover the car up. Maybe he can. What can you do? Maybe if you get some brush or some branches or something, you know, like I'm like strategizing what he what he can do. I'm like, all of a sudden, I'm in his mindset. All the sudden I'm on his side. Yeah, five seconds. He completely gets us to switch allegiance. Yeah, amazing.

Sage: 34:00

So we watched the remake a little bit of that. But one of the criticisms we had is how stiff the actors seem, because it is a shot for shot line for line remake. Yes, there's no there's no originality. And because those parts are not written for the actors in the remake. It doesn't work.

Ethan: 34:21

I like Gus Van Sant. I don't like that remake. And it is it's exactly for that reason. We talked about constraints before like, you know, you can be constrained by budget, you can be constrained by format film stock, you know, black and white. In a way you could say, well, Gus Van Zandt, you know, wanted to do an homage here and the constraint was to do a shot by shot word by word reproduction of psycho, and you could still find ways to be creative within them. I just felt like if you're gonna try to have that as your constraint you really need to excel or exceed in other areas. And it didn't, you know, really didn't Yeah, the actors did feel wooden. They seem constraint, like, you can't do any I mean, you're acting I guess, but it's like doing Shakespeare almost. Yeah. And I guess there's an argument to be made for do it, treat it like that and just say, Well, we are it's like we're doing, you know, a Shakespeare play. We're just gonna be very loyal to the original material. Yeah, but, but the point is that in the original material, a lot of it was

Sage: 35:20

improv. Yeah. And one of the other things that shouldn't say improv

Ethan: 35:23

that makes it sound to off the cuff, but it was like they really made the scenes their own, and they did improvise a lot of them. And there were a couple scenes actually, like Arbogast and Norman Bates, the detective and Norman Bates when they're they're talking for the first time. Yeah, like that. seen the film twice. And the second one was the one that they used, because they both wanted to

Sage: 35:44

improv a little bit. Yeah, and they can't do that in the remake and one of the other things in the remake that I don't know whose choice it was maybe the actor or maybe they thought it would just be better this way. But Norman right off the bat is creepy. There's no warm sense of companionship or anything he does is the actor does this thing where his laugh is a little was kind of a stereotypical metaclass. Yeah, so right away, you get a weird feeling from him, which I think one of the great parts of the original movie is that he's not like that at first. Yeah, you like him? He's like, Yeah, and in the remake you lose that

Ethan: 36:30

which talk a little bit about the origin of psycho, the book. Yes. Movie. Where this comes from? Yeah. So goes goes back to my my hometown. My home my stomping grounds. Wisconsin, Wisconsin.

Sage: 36:44

This is a little bit disturbing. Yeah, this part so yeah, just a heads up about a real serious No, who add to gain is he was a serial killer from Wisconsin

Ethan: 36:57

litter. And I'm not joking. Like, probably. He's like a stone's throw from the town I grew up in not more than maybe 30 minute drive away.

Sage: 37:05

Yeah. So little disturbing, but his case is pretty famous. Yeah. Because of the things that they found in his house after he was caught. This is the part that's really gets kind of gory. In his house. They found objects made out of human skin.

Ethan: 37:24

Yeah. It was basically it was like taxidermy and

Sage: 37:27

stuff like famously lampshade. Yeah, like tights made out of someone's skin. It was pretty disturbing stuff. He said in his that he was trying to become his mother.

Ethan: 37:42

So this serial killer inspires many different films. Yeah, psycho Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Silence of the Lambs. Like there's a whole series of films, because a minute is a horrific events, which really becomes kind of seared into the American psyche.

Sage: 37:57

Because it's hard to imagine how anyone could it's

Ethan: 38:01

it's horrific. It's like, absolute horror. You know, one of the ways I think that we do process the horror of real events is through fiction is through cinema. Right? So this is sort of our collective dreaming and processing of terrible events that that happened.

Sage: 38:19

Yeah. And it produces things like psycho. Yeah. And in psycho. Obviously, it's much more tainted. Now. The biggest similarity, I think, is between his relationship with his mother. Right. And that's a big part of it is that he is becoming his mother. Yes, he doesn't skin people. He doesn't do anything like that. He just dresses up as his mother. And

Ethan: 38:40

although he does, he did taxidermy his mother. Basically, were trying to show her body

Sage: 38:45

yeah, to preserve it, and he act as if she's alive. He speaks in her voice. The creepiness is that he really does believe that he is his mother. There's a scene at the end. That's yeah, let's talk about the sleep debated. After Norman Bates has been caught, the psychiatrist is talking to who is I think it's just Sam and Marian sister. Who else is there.

Ethan: 39:12

The cops were there? Yeah. Probably the district attorney is there is anything like it's a whole mess of Yes, Sam in the in Marion sister there as well. I believe. It's a weird scene. It almost feels like a courtroom scene.

Sage: 39:25

So the psychiatrist is just explaining everything. Yeah, much that has gone on in Norman's mind and

Ethan: 39:34

monologues for like 510 Min. It feels like a long time.

Sage: 39:37

So when I first watched it, I didn't particularly notice that seen as something that seemed off about the movie plays I understand where some people are coming from with their criticisms of it. It's like how in some movies, they hold your hand and they explain

Ethan: 39:54

what's going on through dialogue. Watch this movie. Now we're going to explain what happened.

Sage: 39:58

I mean, maybe it was different than I The time maybe some audiences needed that, you know, what he's saying is pretty much like Norma has a split personality. He thinks he is his mother and he had at times he asked for her. And then there's also a whole part about his mother's backstory about how Norman's father died. And then his mother finds someone else. And Normann kills them both.

Ethan: 40:20

It basically lays out the entire backstory, but it does it in very scientific or at least pseudo scientific language. My read on that is twofold. So one, I think there's a little bit of explaining stuff going on where you're just like, Okay, we're gonna tell this audience now what they just saw. I think there's a little bit of that. Yeah. What's interesting is that scene with a psychiatrist was shot basically, in one take, the guy gets up does the whole monologue, which is actually I think well acted.

Sage: 40:46

Yeah, no, I think the actor is good in that scene. They have criticisms of the scene, not the performance, you know, if Sure,

Ethan: 40:53

exactly. Yeah. He's done all that. He finishes the monologue, the crew breaks into applause. They're like, wow, that was really good. Good job. I'd be impressed, too, right. Alfred Hitchcock says, you've just saved my film, I think, you know, him saying that is not like it while everything else was trashed. But this, this performance is really gonna save it. I think what he's saying my interpretation of that was that you're saving up from the censors, because you could look at the film, if you cut out that scene, you could look at the film as just sort of like very sensationalist kind of exploitation cinema where it's like, Ooh, there's like some sexy stuff in the beginning. And then we have some bloody murder stuff and what's titillating? And if you just leave it at that, I can imagine the sensors getting their back up and being like, whoa, I'm a little you know, this is too much. Yeah. But if you then say, Oh, by the way, it's all very psychological. Very scientific. Yeah. Then it sort of makes it okay. And more palatable in a way for the sensors, because you've then set it in, in sort of like, scientifically, yeah.

Sage: 41:49

And the end the monologue at the end of Norman. Well, actually, it's not Norman. It's his mother.

Ethan: 41:56

Right. So after the psychiatrist does his monologue, the scene cuts to Norman alone in a cell talking to himself in his head, basically. Yeah. But it's his mother talking to herself.

Sage: 42:06

Yeah. And it's really interesting. And I think your relationship with your mother is very important in your life, and especially for a boy alone, shout out

Ethan: 42:17

to front of the show, say just mother.

Sage: 42:20

You know, there's this whole thing with like Freud. Yeah.

Ethan: 42:26

Like, you know, fried.

Sage: 42:29

When you say Freud, they

Ethan: 42:31

think of Mother issues.

Sage: 42:34

Yeah, that's that whole thing, the idea that he had about the relationship between a boy and his mother, mind you, this was based off of a real story. That's what's kind of so disturbing about her. So who said it, we were watching the making make the making of someone said that is what makes it so horrifying is that it was based off of something real and that it kind of solidifies it in the audience's mind.

Ethan: 43:10

Speaking of the so the book and the, you know, the real events and everything, one of the things I wanted to mention about the book is that after Hitchcock bought the rights to the book in California, at least Yeah, he bought up every copy of the book, you could find it so interesting, because his goal like this is not like there was no Amazon, it was like, you could just go and just like, buy up all the books. And he did that so that it wouldn't be available to read. Because he felt that the mystery The surprise was so critical to the success of the film. Yeah. And he had like, advertising when the film was released, he was like, Please don't tell what surprises. Like it's amazing that you could do that. Like, yeah, please don't say Don't tell anybody. Okay. Yeah, no spoilers. And it worked, I guess, you know, and oh, and the other weird thing about that, just as long as we're talking about the marketing, is that it was not uncommon for theaters is kind of like play the same film, like, again, and again and again during the day. And people kind of wander in and out of the theater, not necessarily at the like, top of the hour top of the showing. And so they might go into the film like partway through, right. Yeah. And he was adamant that they couldn't do that, that they wouldn't be allowed into the theater. And he had signs to that effect and all sorts of stuff. They had like a special record album that they had pressed, that would play in the lobby of the theater, and it would be like 10 minutes to psycho time, five minutes, a psycho time. He was like really focused on people going in at the right time to see the film. And again, it's because he was like, I'm playing the audience. The audience is my instrument.

Sage: 44:38

Yeah. And it's because you know, people will go in and they'll expect a Janet Lee movie. And if they go in after she has been murdered, they won't be here.

Ethan: 44:50

Yeah, I mean, also, I think, you know, he wanted them to really experience that whole

Sage: 44:54

arc, but I'm really I'm really glad that he was. He was adamant about that because Yeah, it is such a big part of the movie. It's it's a serious movie. You know, it's not a movie that you could just worn up

Ethan: 45:07

laying around here. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's It's that's needed. I think it had a huge impact on just the way people saw movies after that. Yeah. became more of a thing to go in and see the whole movie. Yeah.

Sage: 45:18

Because now it would be unthinkable to go in just halfway through and then wander out, you know, right. There's specific times specific showings, you know, to see a movie from start to finish.

Ethan: 45:31

Yeah. It's true. I can't stand it when people wander in.

Sage: 45:36

I have the knee that I feel like I need to go over and explain to them what has happened. I did catch

Ethan: 45:42

up just a couple minutes. But I'm here to help. Yeah. All right. I think that wraps it up.

Sage: 45:50

Thanks for joining us on this episode of the teen horror cast. You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at teen horror cast where we'd love to hear from you. Let us know what films you'd like to hear us review. See you next episode. I'll see you then. Bye bye.

Ethan: 46:14

Who has pled out before$2,000?

Sage: 46:19

So something you're not telling me