Ethan: 0:00

Alright, like this, and I'm gonna scream Okay, hold on go ahead and go out and scream Okay, that was making you feel better now. That was it. That was that was a review of screen give it us three stars that scream

Sage: 0:34

Hello, and welcome to episode 11 of the teen horror podcast where we watch and discuss horror movies from a teens perspective. I'm your host sage and I'm joined by my co host and unpaid intern my Dad

Ethan: 0:46

Yeah, we need to talk about that unpaid business. We need some revenue.

Sage: 0:52

This week we watched West Craven's 1996 meta-horror movie"SCREAM."

Ethan: 0:57

As usual, we're covering horror films that involve death and mayhem. So if you aren't comfortable with discussions of fictional murder, best to duck out now.

Sage: 1:06

Additionally, this week, we're going to talk about a real world event, which occurred as we were preparing to record this episode. Specifically, it was a school shooting in my school. And we wanted to talk about the feelings we have about the relationship between real world horror and fictional horror. If that sounds too intense, my intern will pop in here to tell you where to jump ahead to skip that and just listen to the film

Ethan: 1:29

All right, let's go on to our section that we're calling discussion. backstory.

Sage: 1:35

Yeah, so I think we called it character development previously. Yep. We switched it to backstory. Well, this is

because: 1:41

this is our podcast, and we can do what we want,

Ethan: 1:43

Right? We're the writers and we can rewrite it. Yeah, this is this is the revision, we're gonna punch up the, as I say, punch up the script. Yeah. What is the backstory section by the way, we should clarify that.

Sage: 1:53

So we're just kind of filling you guys in on what we've been doing since the last episode like movies we've watched and recommend or don't recommend, you know, things you've been doing.

Ethan: 2:05

So what kind of media have you been consuming?

Sage: 2:07

Yes. So since our last episode, I have watched Guillermo del Toro's series, not the whole thing, but five of them. Five of the episodes. Cabinet of curiosities is what it's called. Yeah, I love Guillermo del Toro. And my favorite one that I've seen is probably the very first one in the series, which I think it's my favorite because it was directed by him. It's really good. Yeah, they're just kind of like little bite size. horror movies.

Ethan: 2:32

Yeah what a great director and yeah, like you did Pan's Labyrinth... a report on that for school. I did. years ago, actually. Yeah, a while ago. And yeah, let's see what else?

Sage: 2:45

Um, for all you Knives Out fans, I watched the sequel Glass Linnaean, which is awesome. I think I love Ron Johnson. I think the glass on Yun was amazing. It was very riveting. And the twists and turns were perfect. And there were just so fun. Yeah, it doesn't the film that makes you feel smart when you figure something out. But not stupid when you don't.

Ethan: 3:09

Totally. I'm on board. Yeah.

Sage: 3:11

Yeah. Characters are just so fun too.

Ethan: 3:13

So we saw that in theater. It was great. It was only a theater for like a week or something. It was such a shame. But I'm really glad that we got to see it. You know, it was such a great experience to go. We have not been to the theater a ton. I mean, we we rent a lot of videos from scarecrow video, shout out to Seattle Scarecrow Video. Yeah, we just haven't gotten to the actual physical theater as much as I like. And it was really fun to be there. We went to sort of Seattle's quote unquote, premier shopping centers, which was kind of like a ghost town inside on the busy shopping day of the year, the day after Thanksgiving. But the theater was packed. Yeah, it was. People were like having a good time. And they were like laughing and clapping. And it was just great. Yeah, it was a perfect theater experience.

Sage: 3:59

And I noticed something in the credits

Ethan: 4:03

All right, yeah. What did you notice? Oh yes, this is awesome.

Sage: 4:08

If you've seen Glass Onion or like if you haven't this is not a spoiler. Yeah, no, it's not. But there's this thing that happens in the movie like they're on this little island, this fancy rich person Island and there's this thing that happens every hour. It's called like the "hourly bong" or something where like, there's this bell at the top of the island or something. It was everywhere.

Ethan: 4:27

It's like it's piped into speakers or something. But and he claims at one point he's like, Oh, I had like Philip Glass record that. Yes.

Sage: 4:37

That's so funny. Yeah, it's like it's just like a bell but in the credits, it says hourly. Bong is credited to Joseph Gordon. Levitt. Yeah. And so he must have like, he just says "bong" and I kind of freaked out. I was in the theater. We were leaving. And I like, I let it a little scream because I was like, I love Joseph Gordon Levitt, his

Ethan: 4:59

name. I think this scream was "JOSEPH GORDON LEVITT"... just like that.

Sage: 5:03

So he's a very close, personal friend of mine.

Ethan: 5:06

In your head, that's true. You have a rich dialogue with him on a regular basis. Yeah.

Sage: 5:11

No, I love him. He's just a great funny guy. I love him. I think like as a real person, he just seems very genuine.

Ethan: 5:17

Yeah. You said like you have a good... You're a true fan.

Sage: 5:21

Well, he's my friend. He's

Ethan: 5:27

this is not an unhealthy parasocial relationship at all. It's good to know.

Sage: 5:31

We also watched Wednesday, the new Netflix series, which I thought was really good. It was like a fun little series. I love the character Wednesday. I really like her outfits. I did a little bit of research on her outfits after watching it because I just thought they were the greatest. Apparently those big chunky shoes she wears are Prada. And they're like $1,000 or something. So it'll be a little bit out of my price range.

Ethan: 5:59

Chunky black. Almost.

Sage: 6:02

Yeah, so I do I recommend that it's a very fun bingeable series.

Ethan: 6:08

Yeah. What else we watched recently, actually, this week, we watched your dark. Yeah. And a 1987 vampire movie, which was your first vampire movie, which I'm so happy about? Because it's the best. Yeah. vampire movie is directed by Kathryn Bigelow. And then last night, we watched another nifty 87 vampire movie. Last boy. The Lost Boys. Yeah. Just great. I love that pairing.

Sage: 6:35

They very much remind me of each other. Yeah. Which I think is funny. Yeah,

Ethan: 6:40

there's a lot of common kind of different tone though.

Sage: 6:43

Yeah, Lost Boys kind of reminds me more of the Goonies because

Ethan: 6:47

Oh 100% their kids, right? It's

Sage: 6:49

like these. It's the independent of their parents. Yeah, so yeah,

Ethan: 6:55

it's the Goonies with vampires. And then like slightly older, sexier kids that you kind of wanted to be when you're my age are like, oh, yeah,

Sage: 7:02

you pointed something out. That was like, little kids can watch it and be like, oh, I want to be like those. Like little gays characters. They're nice kids. And then older kids can watch it and be like, oh, I want to be like those vampires. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, yeah. And also, Halloween did occur. Correct. Not the movie but not the dog. I went as Carrie i i think it might have been my best costume was course of my amazing. I applied my the blood to my face, like at school and the school bathroom. Yeah, a little bit of struggle, but it was worth it. Because I gotta I gotta love staring looks. But like a lot of adults recognize me because I think that's kind of the key is to dress up as an older movie character because adults will know you.

Ethan: 8:08

You will get more candy from the adults rolling out the candy. So yep.

Sage: 8:14

Yeah, that was fun.

Ethan: 8:15

Yeah, that was that was a great outfit you were wearing like it was like the prom. Okay, yeah, so tiara, actually,

Sage: 8:20

um, the dress I did deface a dress, with acrylic paint and fake blood and like whatever else. And that that was the same dress that I wore to homecoming, the homecoming dance a week earlier. So that was

Ethan: 8:35

the great thing about that outfit. That costume was it's it was simple, but it's like when you see a Picasso painting of like a bowl, and you're like, that's three lines, but it's the best bull I've ever seen. You know, it's like, there was like three elements to your costume. It was like fake blood. Cheap prom dress. And, and that was all you need. And it's 100 No question. When you see it. You're like, Oh, that's great. Yeah.

Sage: 8:58

Someone asked me like an adult. This old guy. He was like, Have you been? Do you know who Kerry is? I was like, Yeah, I've read the book. So you're a poser a fake man. I'm very lucky me. Curious actually the first Stephen King book I've ever read. So that's right.

Ethan: 9:15

Yeah. Yeah, cuz I actually wait. I think it was right after I ordered you a bunch of good cover. Stephen King books.

Sage: 9:25

Yeah, good covers. Yeah.

Ethan: 9:37

The next few minutes are a discussion of our feelings on what it means to talk about horror movies after experiencing some real life horrific events. If you'd rather skip this jump ahead to the movie summary starting at the 21 minute mark. So let's go on we're gonna talk a little bit about a serious topic. We pause the recording of this episode, actually, when we were going to do it earlier in November, after some pretty serious stuff happened. And there was, we just want to be really frank about all this, there was a shooting at sages High School, which is actually the same place that my wife works. So it was close very close to our family. This happened, you know, in the middle of the school day, we didn't feel like jumping back into a review of a movie that involved teens and death in high school right away, for obvious reasons. But we wanted to talk about this because it was it had a big impact on us. And we wanted to talk about our relationship with horror. And what happens, you know, when you experience a real life horror, so, sage, let's talk a little bit about that. We're going to try to keep this section compartmentalized, so we're not going to talk about it in the rest of the review and discussion of the movie. But this is sort of our place to just kind of air that.

Sage: 10:47

Yeah. So I don't, I'm not going to talk about the details at all. I don't want that to be what this section is about. So it just it happened in early November, as you said, middle, the school day, there was a lockdown. Everyone was in their classrooms for a few hours. And that was truly terrifying. Yeah, for me, and I'm sure you know, everyone else who is experiencing it, the thoughts that were going through my head was like, I guess I knew that this could have happened. But until that moment, it kind of seemed

Ethan: 11:23

removed. Sure. It always feels like it happened somewhere else, because it was

Sage: 11:27

and, you know, no one should have to go into school and worry that someone has a gun. Yeah. That's like, there has been so many failings, on like, a governmental level all the way down to like this level. Yeah. To lead to this point. Where, like, children are paying for the reluctance to put restrictions on like gun safety, like, children are paying with their lives. Yep.

Ethan: 12:00

Yeah, it is terrible. And, you know, you texted me, the moment I think that you guys were just going into lockdown, and there was even some uncertainty, like as it was chaos, obviously, a little bit and what was going on. And, I mean, I don't remember anything until the, you know, a few minutes later, I like tore into the school. Like the area around the school, I just drove my truck right over there and was like, you know, waiting. And I was easily one of the first couple dozen parents on the scene. And, you know, by the end of the school day, by the time that they we got everybody out of the building, it was hundreds of people just you know, around the building. Yeah. All worried for you guys not getting any information. So it was it was horrible. We didn't. I mean, it obviously, you know, school was, was canceled for days. And we had to kind of come back together and figure out, you know what to do and start to process what it just happened. I should say, you know, it was not a mass shooting, it was a targeted shooting, which hardly seems a point worth making. And yet it does seem like a point worth talking about. Like, you know, it was the impact on the school, though, was huge, regardless, right. I mean, somebody was murdered at the building.

Sage: 13:24

Yeah. Yeah. It feels horrible that it's, like, a good thing to say that it was just a targeted just, yeah. Like, there's

Ethan: 13:36

all the issues of like somebody bringing a gun to school, and Oh, yeah.

Sage: 13:40

And, you know, since then, I think that like, there's, I think heightened security on campus, like maybe one or two security guards. But that's all I've seen no, like clear bags or bag checks or anything like that. It is really terrifying to come to school and know that that's a possibility every single day. And I guess we also wanted to talk about how fictional horror kind of relates to real life horrors and the relationship between them

Ethan: 14:16

right so like, well, let me ask you this. So first of all, why is it we felt uncomfortable at all? Not doing the podcast right away. Like what? What is it that made you feel uncomfortable?

Sage: 14:26

Um, it seems insensitive. Yeah. If I'm being honest to talk about this piece of fiction involving kids and death, when something like that has just happened in the real world. Because I think as much as fiction, like fictional movies and books and things that can be really fun, it is so important to know that those are separate from the real world. Right. And that you Not everything, like things that happen in fiction. Those things can be fun. But then when brought into real life, they're not the same. Right? Yeah. And it's, it was really important to just kind of Yeah, at that, you know? Yeah, no,

Ethan: 15:16

that's a great point, sage. I mean, we watch, like, we watch these horror movies, and they're horrible things that happen in these horror movies. But they can be like, in a crazy way. And like in this movie that we'll talk about today. They can be fun and funny. And you know, shivery? Yeah. But it's because we know that it's fiction. And it's a safe way to experience those feelings. And I feel like what happened is that the safety of experiencing those feelings in a fictional setting was taken away for a couple of weeks there.

Sage: 15:49

Exactly. Yeah. Another thing I wanted to talk about is kind of the point that some people bring up sometimes that, you know, horror movies are insensitive, or something like that. And I'm personally, my view on that is that horror movies themselves aren't insensitive, but the way some people can interpret and process those can be insensitive. There's another thing that this is this kind of relates to like fictional horror, but true crime, it kind of branches off from that. And I think that like the true crime bubble, is a place where a lot of like, insensitivity happens, sure. Because it's true crime, like, and a lot of people watch these videos, or listen to these podcasts about real things that have happened as a form of entertainment for themselves, whilst forgetting that the events of the quote unquote, story have affected so many people's lives, in the worst ways. Yeah. And that's kind of what I was talking about, about being able to separate fiction from reality. True Crime kind of blends those together. And I think that's a really dangerous thing that can be so harmful if you're not, like hyper aware of how you're listening to true crime. And like being mindful of how it's affected people in real life. If you lose that, at any point, while you're listening to true crime, it can be really harmful. Because, you know, a lot of people might like, make jokes about things that have happened to true crime, or that this thing that I think has been a phenomenon for a while, but kind of romanticizing serial killers Is so insensitive, and is not something that anybody should be doing like, this Halloween, this past Halloween. A lot of people even on my school, were dressing up as Jeffrey Dahmer. Like, I don't even know how that could how someone could think that's okay. To dress up as someone who has killed people, like in their families, like emotionally like, Yeah, you. That's just not okay.

Ethan: 18:19

Yeah, no, I'm with you on that. Such. I really appreciate your insight there. I haven't heard you say that out loud, like that before. And it really, I think you nailed it. I think that, you know, I've heard that I've seen true crime, documentaries and podcasts that I thought were mostly trying to deal with things in a sensitive way. But it's such a, it's such an industry now. You know, and I just feel like people are creating this churning out this. It's like the reality TV, right? It's like this stuff is, it's pre written in a way

Sage: 18:57

it's kind of catered to an audience that wants to be kind of, like, thrilled or entertained, or, you know, like, it's not true crime, I think becomes dangerous when it's with the intent of entertainment rather than information. Because that's when it starts to feel like fiction. When it's not at all.

Ethan: 19:22

Yeah, I think that you can see how it can when it's just titillating what is just sort of, like, you know, creating this experience, which is designed to be primarily entertainment. I mean, I suppose all content in a way is quote unquote, entertainment. But when it's done just to entice and entertain and there's no reflection, there's no it's not treated with any sort of gravity or, or respect, I guess, but when you start to lose that it's that's not good. That's unhealthy. So So that yeah, that's the big difference, I think, between us consuming horror content, just as people just as people who like horror films, you know, and versus consuming something like, true crime, you know, and just doing it gleefully, just consuming gleefully. You know, I feel like when we're watching horror films has always been, again, like a safe way to experience those scary feelings. I think we can still keep doing that. Having an experience something kind of scary. I don't know. How do you feel about that?

Sage: 20:30

Yeah, I think that it can be a way to experience it safely. But they're like, the reason that we backed off from recording this for a while is because, you know, after that happened in real life, that kind of safety was kind of pulled out from under us. And it doesn't feel so much like fiction anymore.

Ethan: 20:52

All right. Anything else you want to talk about there? Should we? I think that's all right. Then we're going to jump in to the actual scary movie that we're going to talk about today. Do you? And before we jump into the rest of the podcast, I just want to mention that we will be spoiling, spoiling, spoiling everything in this movie, starting with the movie summary that we do every episode. So if you've already seen scrim and you kind of just want a refresher, you're gonna get that in a moment. If you have not seen scrim and you'd like to see it. We recommend just, you know, come back to the podcast after you've watched it. What a great film. Super fun, you'll love it. With that on to the summary.

Sage: 21:43

screen plays with the classic tropes of the horror genre, repurposing them as misdirection, red herrings, and meta commentary on the genre and the movie itself.

Ethan: 21:52

The film begins with Casey Becker played by Drew Barrymore in a classic horror movie setup home alone at night when the phone rings. Chatting with the apparent Wrong Number caller, she is drawn into a conversation that quickly turns menacing. Realizing that the caller is outside her isolated countryside house, she is taunted into playing horror movie trivia to save the life of her boyfriend and herself. Trivia challenges she fails to meet, resulting in their deaths at the hand of a robed ghost masked knife wielding killer.

Sage: 22:58

Having already confounded our expectations that this extended first scene was presenting us with who we had first believed to be the star and main character. We move on to the actual protagonist Sidney Prescott, played by Neff Campbell. She seems to be a classic horror genre ingenue sitting alone in her bedroom doing her schoolwork. Classic jumpscare later and her boyfriend Billy played by skeet Ulrich sneaks into her bedroom for a makeout session during which we realize that Sydney is that most classic of horror film trips, the virgin who turns down her boyfriend's advances. In this case, part of her reluctance stems from her mother's murder a year before. A trauma is still fresh for Sydney and her father played by Lawrence Hecht.

Ethan: 23:54

After Billy leaves her father comes in to tell her that he's leaving on a trip. We won't see much of him for the rest of the film other than as an implied suspect in the killings to come.

Sage: 24:04

Cut to the Woodsboro Town High School, Sidney and her gang of friends arrived to news reporters swarming the front lawn to cover the death of Kc Becker and her boyfriend and I before. Besides Sydney and Billy the crew of kids that formed the main High School characters for the remainder of the film include Sydney's BFF Tatum, played by Rose McGowan. Randy a horror film obsessive played by Jamie Kennedy and Matthew Lillard playing the self centered class clowns do.

Ethan: 24:55

The next scene echoes the opening. Sydney is alone at home and the phone rings we know the voice Have the killer and the call takes a dark turn quickly as the killer tonsor about her mother's death. Moments later she's being chased through her house by the dark robed masked murderer till she barricades herself in her room and calls for help. Billy crawls in through the window before the police arrive and a cell phone drops from his pocket. An unusual item for a teenager in 1996. She looks at him with growing suspicion and Billy is soon under arrest at the police station under suspicion of murder.

Sage: 26:09

Leaving the police station after giving a statement Sydney and her friend Tatum are confronted by the reporter Gale weathers played by Courtney Cox. Sydney punches her after Gail brings up her mother's murder and leaves to spend the night at Tatum's house

Ethan: 26:29

while they're Sydney receives a call from the killer. After this call and Billy's call history is checked and found to be clean. Billy himself is released. Obviously innocent.

Sage: 26:38

With all the chaos in the town. The kids decide that now is the perfect time for a house party. Gail weathers and a cameraman stay got the place while the kids watch Halloween on videotape inside. Randy recounts the rules of horror films while Sidney prepares to break the biggest horror movie rule of all, losing her virginity to Billy upstairs.

Ethan: 27:59

After a series of killings occurred during the party from Sydney's best friend Tatum to Gale weathers cameraman, we finally begin to suspect Billy but he himself falls at the hands of the masked killer. As Sidney watches in terror. She flees the killer and is chased through the house until she winds up face to face with a very much alive Billy covered in what turns out to be fake blood.

Sage: 28:40

We realized that it was Billy working together with Stu all along. Their maniacal friendship hinges on murder the game they took turns playing as the masked killer with a voice disguiser as they taught and now captive Sidney they revealed that her father is also tied up and about to be killed along with her.

Ethan: 28:57

Gale weathers intervenes long enough to let Sydney get away. Sydney herself dons the killer's robes and turns the table and billions to she Randy and Gail face off against the two psychopaths and after one final jumpscare Bailey is finally killed. And Sydney having defied the horror film rules stands victorious. Yay, yay, certainly. Right. On to our discussions

Sage: 29:33

what an iconic movie.

Ethan: 29:35

Yeah, absolutely. 100% It definitely changed. I mean, it changed the aura industry for sure. Yeah. So let's talk about overall impressions. Yeah,

Sage: 29:43

so this movie, really the only thing I knew about it was ghost face. Because so many people talk like he's just an iconic character like Freddy Krueger, Michael Myles Meyers, whatever. Yeah, but yeah, so that was kind of the only thing I knew about scream and also that there were a bunch of like sequels after it, which Wes Craven directed four out of five of I really liked it. It reminded me of cabin in the woods. Because I seen cabin in the woods before this. I feel like if I saw a cabin in the woods now afterwards, it will remind me of scream and so the other way around, you know, yeah, because, like ultimately Cabin in the Woods is the kind of satirical parody of all these other movies screen being one of them. Sure. But yeah, I really like that it does a little bit of kind of fourth wall breaking when they talk about the like rules of horror movies. When Randy's talking about that and explaining it while they're watching Halloween. That's something that everyone is kind of like aware of like subconsciously like yeah, viewers of the movie, and then he says it out loud and you're like, Oh, yeah.

Ethan: 30:46

Does he go over the rules? So okay, so let's Yeah, let's let's touch on that for a second. So this movie definitely plays with First of all, uses a lot of the horror film tropes that we've we've kind of codified over decades. You know, if you're a virgin, you live if you have sex in a horror film, you die, etc, etc. It takes all those expectations, all those tropes, and it uses them to kind of manipulate our expectations a little bit and to mislead us and as red herrings.

Sage: 31:14

Another thing I really like about the movies, the characters, they all seem really solid, specifically, Dewey's character. I love him. He's

Ethan: 31:23

so funny cast in this movie is amazing. Yeah, I

Sage: 31:25

know. The cast is really good. I was watching this kind of behind the scenes of the cast. And it might have been West Craven, the director talking about how it was like he got all these young actors who it would get the screenplay for it and they'd be like, what, who was in it? I got to be in this too. You know, like as a kind of like, just trickled down to Matthew

Ethan: 31:46

Lillard was cast though, how he was he went to the wherever they were holding the auditions. He was there with his then girlfriend for some other film. And he was like, literally in the hallway. And the casting director was like, Hey, you should read for this. And he got the part.

Sage: 32:00

Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. No, I think Matthew Lillard is great at stew. Oh, totally. So you brought up that Oh, somebody will think that his performance is done. Yeah, I don't think so. I think it's perfect. I think teens are just crazy. Sometimes. Like they just read just, like do weird stuff. Like, like, it's not like have you been? Oh, yeah. Like that. People are just weird. Like, that's just how it is. And also, he's like, a little bit of an obsessive psychopath. Yeah. I don't see the arguments. And it's overdone.

Ethan: 32:32

I love him in this film. I love that performance. He is. I mean, it's an unforgettable performance. I don't I'm not annoyed by it at all. I don't know if people are annoyed by it, or they just feel like it's like not nuanced or whatever. But like, seriously, you're right. Like, have you seen it realized? Like, they're not nuanced? No, half the time. They're modular, like,

Sage: 32:50

what are you? Like? I think a lot of people are used to seeing really complex, nuanced performances. From like, adults as teenagers, because whatever. But yeah, like whatever. Yeah. But I think I think he's really great. And I also think that his relationship and that like dynamic with Billy is so good. Yeah, the way I kind of said it is like, Stu is obsessed with Billy and Billy is obsessed with killing people. Yeah. So kind of by proxies through is yeah,

Ethan: 33:24

that definitely feels like the right vibe. I still definitely seems totally Billy obsessed. He's just

Sage: 33:29

he does whatever Billy wants him to. Yeah. And at the end of the movie, the I guess they're trying to make it seem like they're victims as well. So they take turns stabbing each other Stu and Billy. Alright, and when Billy stopped Yeah, yeah. When Billy steps do Sue was like, Man, that really hurt like that actually hurt. You can see that. He looks afraid.

Ethan: 33:47

Yeah. You know, and hurt. That's the moment where he's like this got to read. Yeah,

Sage: 33:51

like he's this whole time. He's kind of been living in this little fantasy because it hasn't been affecting him.

Ethan: 33:56

Right. It definitely feels like they're playing a game. Yeah, yeah. No, they

Sage: 33:59

literally said like, let's play a game or whatever. Like, what's your you know? And little like the trivia. It's all fun to them

Ethan: 34:16

okay, I remember where I was going with that meandering Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay, let's just jump into that for a second to set this up. So who wrote this

Sage: 34:23

Williamson, specifically, Kevin Williams, originally titled scary movie,

Ethan: 34:28

which is interesting because great later on a parody. Yeah, so he writes, he writes scream and the whole screenplay deals with these horror movie tropes and it kind of turns them on their head and uses them to manipulate the audience like a you expect the version the kid you know if you're a virgin you survive if you have sexy die and we see this girl have sex during the movie where like that's it for her it's curtains for which she survived. So you know, all the all this misdirection, turning these tropes around. What's interesting about that, of course, is the they actually list out the rules for films and how to survive them. And I remember so yes, there's a scene during the house party where they're watching Halloween and Randy the character Randy is giving the the list of rules. You know, like, you can't have sex. You can't drink the course they're all drinking beers. And you can't say I'll be right back. Yeah, you know, like Steve says, I'll be right back. And does but there's a scene earlier than that. That's what I wanted to ask about, which was Randy works in a video store. Yeah, I feel like at that point, he was like, you can't do these. He also kind of touches on movie tropes. And I can't remember if they he goes into the rules that or not,

Sage: 35:35

I feel like he does or something like that. Because I think Steve was there also like being weird, you know, as usual right. Yeah, so I think it's really fitting that he works at a video store. That's a nice little love it. Also, the whole movie is kind of riddled with references to other movies. At one point, Tatum says this funny thing to say she goes, You're starting to sound like a West carpenter.

Ethan: 36:28

Yes. And she she you haven't seen spit in my grave. But she's like, What is this

Sage: 36:35

spit on my garage? It's so funny. But yeah, I think I think I like how much it relies on other movies.

Ethan: 36:49

This is a horror movie written by a guy who loves horror. Yeah.

Sage: 36:52

That's what it feels like. And it feels real because they're referencing horror movies that we've seen also, you know, and they keep being like, this feels just like a movie. Or like, you can't do these things in a horror movie. And you're like, Well, this is you know, like, these are real kids, you know? So

Ethan: 37:09

very nice. I'd love that tone. So yeah, good cast. Who else would we like particularly in the cast? I thought skied Alright, she was great.

Sage: 37:16

He was really good. And I think you guys pretty boy, he and Matthew, I think go really well together because they're kind of they're almost two sides of the same coin. Like Matthew was like crazy outgoing all over the place. One and then Billy is kind of the cold calculating one that comes up with the ideas and executes them. Yeah. And Stewart says little like puppet

Ethan: 37:38

David Arquette. Oh, you already mentioned this dude. He's so he's Tatum. The BFF Tatum. Yeah, he's her brother.

Sage: 37:47

Yeah, older brother. So originally, apparently, like in the screenplay. He was supposed to be just this goofy guy like comic relief. But he turns out, I think this was just because David Arquette was playing him. He turns out to be a really like genuine and nice guy. Very sweet. Yeah, I love him so much. He's just this little ray of sunshine in the movie. And there's this funny scene where he's talking to the police chief because he's a police officer and the police chief is smoking a cigarette and do we is eating an ice cream cone. And every time that police chief takes a drag Do we like takes little bite of ice cream? It's funny, because they don't like they don't address that. It's just like a little contrast between the

Ethan: 38:27

beat for beat every time the guy takes a drag live.

Sage: 38:31

I love it. It just that's really much his character.

Ethan: 38:33

Also, I feel like the great chemistry between David Arquette and Courtney Cox who I think yeah, on this film,

Sage: 38:39

really? Yeah, they're both so human, you know? Yeah, it's not some like crazy.

Ethan: 38:45

Gordon Cox is great in this room.

Sage: 38:46

Yes, she is. I was watching this behind the scenes. And Courtney Cox said that she had to kind of fight to get the role as Gale weathers in the horror movie because everyone saw her as who she wasn't friends, which I have not seen. But she was she was great.

Ethan: 39:01

And it is amazing to me. You haven't seen it was like such a cult. I know. I know. Yeah. One of the three shows. He was watching.

Sage: 39:09

But yeah, so she kind of nobody saw her in that role as someone in a horror movie but I think she did a really good job at it. I've also kind of you know at times you hate her at times you love her. She's kind of a complex here, you know, because she does keep pushing said about her mother's murder. Right and about No, she's great. Yeah, she's a guy who supposedly murdered her mother. What's

Ethan: 39:31

his name? Colin.

Sage: 39:33

They just call them cotton. Really? Yeah,

Ethan: 39:34

gosh it's such a funny name too because it just sounds like the name of a drifter. Right

Sage: 39:42

yeah. And when when Sid punches so that that part is great. Yeah. I was like yeah. You're getting kind of like you feel what Stan is feeling as you're getting kind of ticked off with gale weather that she keeps pushing about? Yeah, her mother's death. What do you know it is kind of insensitive No. 100 Sounds like Gail just wants to get the real story.

Ethan: 40:03

She was. Yeah, she's she's angling for her. So yeah, for sure. I want to talk about another quick fake out. That is just one of my favorites. And that's the Drew Barrymore fake out. Yes. Yeah. And the great thing about this is that the I'm pretty sure that the posters at the time had Drew Barrymore's face Ron and center. Yeah, she's like, the biggest face. Yeah. So you think like, the moment you see the posters on the wall of a theater, you're like, oh, this movie is going to the stars. Drew Barrymore.

Sage: 40:42

Yeah. You know, with like, she's screaming on the cover with like, her hand over her mouth. I mean, porn F Campbell, who, you know, is not on the poster. But yeah, like she's

Ethan: 40:52

on the poster. I think it is. What is a great pickup.

Sage: 40:57

I know, I really like it. Because immediately it's this sense of untrustworthiness like that scene communicates to the viewer that anything could happen. Like they're not afraid to kill anyone off. Just because someone is in the movie for a long time. Doesn't mean that they're

Ethan: 41:12

being star and it Yeah, I mean, the moment that you realize she like the moment that he stabs her, basically, up until that moment, you're just like, how is she gonna get out of this? Because obviously, she's getting out of it. How is she getting? How she was?

Sage: 41:26

She's not Yeah, no, it's good. And the fact that her boyfriend is killed to like, it's just, it's crazy. And I think you read this in the Wikipedia, but they had to cut out so the

Ethan: 41:37

way video that's what? YouTube?

Sage: 41:45

No, yeah. So they had to cut out some of the gory or scenes of like, guts, like rolling down their legs. Yeah.

Ethan: 41:53

He was like, very specific when he was laying down. Specifically the small intestine. Yeah, yeah. And I think they actually filmed it. They cut it. Yeah. Which is too bad.

Sage: 42:02

I wouldn't complain if it wasn't. We'd like to see a Director's Cut. Just that. Yeah.

Ethan: 42:09

We didn't look for any deleted scenes. I guess on this one. There weren't any on the blu ray. We

Sage: 42:13

read. I don't know. I mean, maybe they were just so like, they just couldn't include them. Also, there was a scene that Kevin Williamson, the screen writer wanted to take out, but Wes Craven kept it in. And I think it's a pretty good scene. I think that it you know, add something to the movie. It's where Sydney's in the bathroom in one of the stalls and she overhears these two girls talking about her about her mother, which that always seems to happen in movies I'm never really have some real life, but like that, like they're talking about her and she's

Ethan: 43:01

in a school of like, several 100 standards. You just happen to be the bathroom for the two Exactly. Girls are in there talking about you. Yeah, but

Sage: 43:07

yeah, so they talking about her mom about like, I guess her mom had like a reputation as like, a sloth or something.

Ethan: 43:17

Yeah, well, I mean, that would be a harsh way of putting it. Oh, yes. The moms looked around. Right. That's I think that's the phrase that you Yeah, it's one of those things where, at first for sure. Neff doesn't believe it? And sorry, enough Campbell. Actually doesn't leave it. method actor. Yeah. Yeah. So So Sydney doesn't believe it. And then she slowly realizes like, actually, maybe my mom wasn't a great person or was cheating on my dad. Or whatever. Yeah,

Sage: 43:50

that's another thing about the adult situation. Yeah, that's not addressed that much. No, but there is kind of a be plot or move and see plot, like a really underground plot. Her mom's like, post humorous character arc, I guess. Like through the the eyes of Sid Yeah. Who's realizing that? Yeah. Oh, my God, maybe cotton is innocent. Like yo weathers the news reporter keeps saying unworthy. I don't know where they come. I don't know. But yeah, I think that's really interesting, because it's hard. I mean, it must have been hard for her to come to terms with the fact that Marie Kondo is Oh my god. So his first name is cotton.

Ethan: 44:35

His first name was God, who is such a drifter, and I'm telling you Yeah, Ma'am, can we come in and sit down for a spill? And then that's it then they have an affair and

Sage: 44:48

yeah, so yeah, that's really interesting to to see her at first be in really like complete denial about it and then come to accept that

Ethan: 44:56

Yeah. And I think at one point in Tatum or BFF, actually, as well. Like actually your mom, like, right away?

Sage: 45:03

Yeah. But also I really liked Neff Campbell. In the, in the movie acid I think, just like her look, I think it was Wes Craven who said this actually. But in the behind the scenes video that I was watching. He said like, when he first saw Neff Campbell, he was like, Oh, she's gonna have to toughen up like, she's a little. She's kind of delicate. Like yeah, but he said he was surprised by her that she could handle everything that was happening in the movie because you know, there's a lot of stuff happens in the movies, a lot of Yeah, like death, a lot of gory stuff. And he was like, what he said was like, I was just gonna be like boot camp for her. You know, she handled and she she was really good. She can be pretty fierce and tough. Yeah, for sure. I think she does a really good job of coming off as a believable high school girl, but then also dealing with what happens to her and a good kind of,

Ethan: 45:54

yeah, she has a little bit of a Laurie strode, you know, come to although even she toughens up way more than Laurie strode. Really? Yeah. Yeah. But she has to really confront her boyfriend who she just slept with and then kill him. Not only that, she like puts on the costume and the character. Yeah, sounds good.

Sage: 46:15

That's kind of a thing that it's great throughout the whole movie is it's kind of a guessing game like a whodunit. Yeah. Wes Craven was talking about how he was always thinking about and trying to make it plausible that any any one of the characters could have been the killer. Like he was making sure that they were all like at a place they needed to be at the specific time they needed to be for it to be plausible for them to be the killer. Right? And you're kind of like Billy is so like, kind of suspicious. Yeah. That you think there's no way it could be him? Because he's so obvious, right? But then you're kind of taught like, it's kind of like going back and forth. It's like, he's so suspicious. There's no way but then it's like, oh, maybe they really did. Maybe he does. He doesn't very well. What he's like, right, he

Ethan: 46:55

presents this whole like sometimes he seems caring not caring sometimes he seems a little psycho. Sometimes not. Yeah, like we're a little like somehow weirdly disconnected. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Emotionally. Um, we haven't talked about the principle at all. But I just want to shout out to Henry Winkler who's an amazing actor. Yeah, I grew up with him on happy days playing the Fonz. And he was, you don't know this, but at one point when I was I must have been five and a half or six years old. I dressed up as the Fonz and put on a little performance, like a Fonz seating from Happy Days for my family. Worship fun. So Henry Winkler plays the principal, you know him from having watched the rest of the development of course, he plays a lawyer. And he'd, you know, he he's great in that role. And he also like, is a little sometimes he's threatening and at one point, you think it could be him because he's kind of like, you know, threatening these students with this knife? Yeah. And but then soon after that he dies Yeah,

Sage: 47:57

so the reason they killed off the principal was because they were like, oh, there's this whole like 30 minute chunk of the movie where no one dies? That's unacceptable. Yeah, they killed the principal and then then also, I don't know if they were planning this from when they decided to kill the principal, but that serves a purpose later on in the movie, like at the very end, when you know, everyone's at the party, and then they get some call that's like, hey, the principal is dead. He's like on the field, right, like on the five horse I mean, I don't know. Let's go Let's go see the body before the total grant I know. So that's when they like leave Randy alone to be killed

Ethan: 48:35

right? Yeah, it's funny. So some Yeah, some of the characters you definitely they turn they do like a 180 that's would be Billy for sure. stew for sure. We're like actually no, Stu is nuts the whole time? Yeah, no. Yeah, he he slots right into psycho roll.

Sage: 48:52

Yeah, he's like he's it's kind of like hidden in plain sight. Like he's just crazy.

Ethan: 48:57

Yeah, he's hidden in plain sight. You're right 100% Billy is very good. He's a chameleon. And Sammy

Sage: 49:03

both work. Yeah. Because you like Sue is so crazy. You're like, that's just how he is.

Ethan: 49:09

Gail I like she's just tough as nails the whole time but she does go there's a little bit of a transformation cuz she like or maybe not a transformation maybe it's just more Gale weathers. But she comes back into the house with a gun right? So she doesn't really need to do that right. She doesn't need to come in and confront the killer.

Sage: 49:25

But she kind of saved them. Yeah,

Ethan: 49:28

of course. Then you see she's going on air like moments later

Sage: 49:31

with like your hair is

Ethan: 49:34

tougher. Gale weathers Yeah, nobody walks out of that. Yeah, so that's why I'm like we're the true there's two hero

Sage: 49:40

Gale weathers. That's what I like about her character arc is she goes from this kind of antagonist like just this annoying lady who's following suit to the person who saves them all.

Ethan: 49:50

Yep. Great scene though is when her cameraman gets killed. And wait, who is driving the van? Is it Gail whether it's driving the van or is VoIP? Yes. No yeah so Geller This goes out to the van. Her camera has been killed. She does not know this and she starts the van up and she's like I cannot see out of the front windows and she turns the windshield wiper on and it's covered in blood you didn't realize it's a beautifully, it's perfectly because

Sage: 50:15

it just looks dark. It just looks dark first and then the windshield wipers Come on, like oh my god.

Ethan: 50:22

It's the glorious, nastiest noise. Like it was squeaky noise and like the blood being flicked all over. The body of the cameraman slides off. And he's hanging over the front. Like to me that was like almost the perfect. Yeah, yeah. It's funny. Crazy. Crazy. It's scary. Everything's happening all at once.

Sage: 50:48

Yeah. Oh, no. The thing is Gil, whether it's like goes into the party, and sets up a recording device to record the kids. Yeah, no creepy, but um, then she sets up a monitor in her like news van. And she and the cameraman are watching them. But there's a 32nd delay between what it records and what it displays on their monitor.

Ethan: 51:09

This is 1986 technology. So the hidden camera transmitter, some 630 seconds for those little radio waves to crawl their way over to the truck. And

Sage: 51:17

so what's going on is like Gale weathers his left. Yeah, I think with Dewey. Yeah, like they're going on some sort of like romantic walk or something. And so the cameraman is alone in the van and he watches Randy get murdered on the couch cuz he's alone because all the other kids went to see the principal's right. Nobody

Ethan: 51:37

thinks Randy's murdered. All right. Yeah, he's he's good.

Sage: 51:40

Yeah. And so Randy is actually this is so funny. Randy is yelling at the movie Halloween. He's having Turn around, turn around, you know,

Ethan: 51:50

wow. Killer is coming up behind him. And yeah,

Sage: 51:52

so then the cameraman is talking to his mic as I turn around. Yeah. And then he sees the killer leave the room and like go out of the house. And he's like, Oh, my God, he's gonna come for me. But then he's like, 32nd delay.

Ethan: 52:05

He says that like, just as he leaves the van, or just as he's opening or something like that, right? Like, it's like the realization dawns on him. And then he gets

Sage: 52:14

Yeah. Which is so funny. It is. It's

Ethan: 52:16

great. It's such a beautiful, like, multi layer. No, yeah. Randy watching the video and yelling at the screen and the cameraman watching the video screen and also watching the movie. Great. Beautifully done. Great. Congratulations. Yeah. Okay, anything you change in the film?

Sage: 52:38

Huh? Ah, I feel like the thing about her mom, I would have liked to see that maybe developed a little bit more

Ethan: 52:47

tough to do in a Yeah, yeah,

Sage: 52:50

I hear you're like, sure. But I feel like what they put in was enough to have me wanting to know more about it. So you know, maybe something about like at the end like she's talking about her mommy or something like that. I think that would have been good to kind of wrap up that little,

Ethan: 53:04

especially when it makes me think about the quarry. Another David. Yeah, property, the video game that we played recently where he had some, you know, basically, summer camp horror films. Yeah. And you have such a great opportunity to really dig into a lot of backstory. Yeah, through that game.

Sage: 53:20

Yeah, like Scream almost feels like this thing. It when it feels like what I like about it is that it feels like a real rich world. You know, like, there are things happening in the movie like that would happen in real life. And they give just enough kind of glimpse into these other thing about something in particular, not really just like, you know, the fight that Randy works at a video store. You know, that her mom, this reporter has been hounding her. Yeah, it's

Ethan: 53:45

funny. Do you have a sense of the town? I think Yeah. You got a really good sense of the town from this film. Yeah. All right. I don't know. I feel like we've covered a lot of bases there. Yeah, we've got I don't think there's anything I would change one of these days. We're going to do the movie that prompted this question, by the way, which is the movie that actually started this podcast, which we have now reviewed?

Sage: 54:04

We okay, I don't know if we've ever even mentioned this. I don't think so on the podcast. So since this has been like you feel a little like Easter you can find out. So we watched the movie Oculus actually. Okay, we used to do this really fun thing. It was like maybe a few summers ago. Or maybe it was back when we had fun. Yeah, like during COVID or something. When everything was on lockdown. It would be like 10 or 11 at night. Yeah. And sometimes I just go wandering around the house. Because my mom and my brother they both go to sleep super early. We don't know. They're going to sleep early at night. I hate waking up early. So it's not like it would be 10 or 11. I just be wandering the house and every so often I'd find you down here playing a video game or watching a movie or something and we choose a horror movie and watch it Yeah, that was so fun to do it again. But one of the movies we want Just one night was Oculus not a super well known horror movie or not as well known? Oh, yeah, not as fun. Yeah. But that night, we talked for a long time just annulled basically doing what we do on the podcast here. Yeah. So we weren't recording. And that was like, that was years ago. Yeah, I must have been at this point. Because I think at one point, I was like, Hey, we should record this. You kind of had to convince me to do this. But now we'll say threatened

Ethan: 55:27

but

Sage: 55:32

but yeah, yeah. I'm glad I decided, like, I wasn't sure about doing this podcast because it was like, will it ever even get off the ground? Sure. How do you do a podcast? But I am. I'm so grateful that I did do it. And I'm so I'm very happy with it. I love doing this podcast. It's so fun. And I'm so glad that a lot of people connect with it and enjoy it. And I would like to thank Oculus are starting at all.

Ethan: 55:57

Yeah, we'll record it. I'm grateful for this podcast, too. I think it's awesome.

Sage: 56:01

Thank you for joining us on this episode of the teen horror cast. You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at teen horror cast where we'd love to hear from you. Let us know what films you'd like to hear us review. See you next episode.

Ethan: 56:13

See you then bye bye Alright,

Sage: 56:25

nothing like the psycho scream.

Ethan: 56:27

Let's go. Oh, yeah, actually are the Wilhelm scream did nothing Well, I'm screaming Oh, I

Sage: 56:32

feel like yeah, no, I

Ethan: 56:33

feel like it's a scream that gets used over and over again. Yeah, after movie. Yeah. That's not bad. I think. I'm sure you're gonna hear that. Well, this can be could be like actually, because it sounds kind of crazy.